[POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

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[POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Michael Glavassevich-3

Hi all,

(including [hidden email] on the cc list to hopefully reach a wider audience)

We're talking again on the Xerces j-dev mailing list about dropping support for JDK 1.3. The reason being that current builds of the XPath 2.0 processor (Eclipse PsychoPath) used by the XML Schema 1.1 implementation require JDK 1.4. While we do have a one-off PsychoPath jar that was built with JDK 1.3 some time ago, in order to pick up recent bug fixes in this library we need to refresh it with the JDK 1.4 version. This would only impact the XML Schema 1.1 enabled release for now but at some point in the future when XML Schema 1.1 becomes stable (both spec and impl) this would get merged into the main line.

Given the age of JDK 1.3 and that it's generally out of service my intuition is that this upgrade would probably be okay but wanted to check with users on their needs. Is there anyone out there still using Xerces-J with JDK 1.3? If you are, how long into the future will you continue to do so, and would you be willing to migrate to JDK 1.4 (or higher) to be able to use XML Schema 1.1?

Thanks.

Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: [hidden email]

E-mail: [hidden email]

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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Jacob Kjome
I have a library I develop (XMLC [1]) that depends on JDK1.3 and also depends
on Xerces.  That said, part of the reason of depending on JDK1.3 is to stay in
line with the Xerces dependency on JDK1.3.  The other reason is that JDK1.3 is
free and clear of any built-in XML APIs, which allows me to include exactly
the JAXP library of my choice (xml-apis.jar) without worry of compile-time
binding to odd invalid APIs included in 1.4 (such as some stuff meant for the
HTML2 API that got placed in the HTML1 API DOM package namespace).  But if
Xerces decides to move to a later version of Java, then I will probably move
XMLC right along with it.

That said, I would think that if Xerces were going to bother making a move at
all it would move to JDK1.5 rather than bother with 1.4.  Xerces 2.10 is
always there for 1.3 and 1.4 codebases, which should all be well into
maintenance mode meaning few, if any, library changes.  Moving to 1.5 would
allow Xerces to take advantage of all the new language constructs added in
1.5, as well as APIs added in 1.5 (e.g., StringBuilder -vs- StringBuffer).

So, +1 for changing JDK dependency in general, but I would prefer a move
straight to JDK1.5+ skipping JDK1.4 support.  This also seems to be what a lot
of Apache commons libraries are doing, so it's certainly not unprecedented.

[1] http://forge.ow2.org/projects/xmlc/


Jake

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:36:07 -0400
  Michael Glavassevich <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi all,
>
> (including [hidden email] on the cc list to hopefully reach a wider
> audience)
>
> We're talking again on the Xerces j-dev mailing list about dropping support
> for JDK 1.3. The reason being that current builds of the XPath 2.0
> processor (Eclipse PsychoPath) used by the XML Schema 1.1 implementation
> require JDK 1.4. While we do have a one-off PsychoPath jar that was built
> with JDK 1.3 some time ago, in order to pick up recent bug fixes in this
> library we need to refresh it with the JDK 1.4 version. This would only
> impact the XML Schema 1.1 enabled release for now but at some point in the
> future when XML Schema 1.1 becomes stable (both spec and impl) this would
> get merged into the main line.
>
> Given the age of JDK 1.3 and that it's generally out of service my
> intuition is that this upgrade would probably be okay but wanted to check
> with users on their needs. Is there anyone out there still using Xerces-J
> with JDK 1.3? If you are, how long into the future will you continue to do
> so, and would you be willing to migrate to JDK 1.4 (or higher) to be able
> to use XML Schema 1.1?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael Glavassevich
> XML Parser Development
> IBM Toronto Lab
> E-mail: [hidden email]
> E-mail: [hidden email]


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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Michael Glavassevich-3

Hi Jake,

"Jacob Kjome" <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 12:58:49 PM:

> I have a library I develop (XMLC [1]) that depends on JDK1.3 and also depends
> on Xerces.  That said, part of the reason of depending on JDK1.3 is
> to stay in
> line with the Xerces dependency on JDK1.3.  The other reason is thatJDK1.3 is
> free and clear of any built-in XML APIs, which allows me to include exactly
> the JAXP library of my choice (xml-apis.jar) without worry of compile-time
> binding to odd invalid APIs included in 1.4 (such as some stuff meant for the
> HTML2 API that got placed in the HTML1 API DOM package namespace).  But if
> Xerces decides to move to a later version of Java, then I will probably move
> XMLC right along with it.
>
> That said, I would think that if Xerces were going to bother making a move at
> all it would move to JDK1.5 rather than bother with 1.4.  Xerces 2.10 is
> always there for 1.3 and 1.4 codebases, which should all be well into
> maintenance mode meaning few, if any, library changes.


It's often not a choice but a constraint of the environment the developer is working in, having to write a new application on top of a product stack which is stuck on one of these earlier JDK releases. JDK 1.4 isn't dead yet; still in service for some vendors, including Oracle/Sun if you're a business willing to pay for the support. Not aware of any vendors supporting JDK 1.3 anymore though.

> Moving to 1.5 would
> allow Xerces to take advantage of all the new language constructs added in
> 1.5, as well as APIs added in 1.5 (e.g., StringBuilder -vs- StringBuffer).

Right. We all talked about the benefits of moving up even higher to Java 5 and 6 before, but have been quite conservative about upgrading because of where we are in the food chain.

> So, +1 for changing JDK dependency in general, but I would prefer a move
> straight to JDK1.5+ skipping JDK1.4 support.  This also seems to be
> what a lot
> of Apache commons libraries are doing, so it's certainly not unprecedented.
>
> [1] http://forge.ow2.org/projects/xmlc/
>
>
> Jake
>
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:36:07 -0400
>   Michael Glavassevich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > (including [hidden email] on the cc list to hopefully reach a wider
> > audience)
> >
> > We're talking again on the Xerces j-dev mailing list about dropping support
> > for JDK 1.3. The reason being that current builds of the XPath 2.0
> > processor (Eclipse PsychoPath) used by the XML Schema 1.1 implementation
> > require JDK 1.4. While we do have a one-off PsychoPath jar that was built
> > with JDK 1.3 some time ago, in order to pick up recent bug fixes in this
> > library we need to refresh it with the JDK 1.4 version. This would only
> > impact the XML Schema 1.1 enabled release for now but at some point in the
> > future when XML Schema 1.1 becomes stable (both spec and impl) this would
> > get merged into the main line.
> >
> > Given the age of JDK 1.3 and that it's generally out of service my
> > intuition is that this upgrade would probably be okay but wanted to check
> > with users on their needs. Is there anyone out there still using Xerces-J
> > with JDK 1.3? If you are, how long into the future will you continue to do
> > so, and would you be willing to migrate to JDK 1.4 (or higher) to be able
> > to use XML Schema 1.1?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Michael Glavassevich
> > XML Parser Development
> > IBM Toronto Lab
> > E-mail: [hidden email]
> > E-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]


Thanks.

Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: [hidden email]

E-mail: [hidden email]

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RE: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Gary Gregory-5
In reply to this post by Michael Glavassevich-3

At work here, we jumped from 1.4.2 to 6 a .couple of years ago. We use Java 6 for all new products. We have older product versions that are still supported that run on 1.4.2 which we update for bug fixes. We are constantly encouraging our users to upgrade products to current versions which do require Java 6.

 

So you can jump to Java 6 from my POV

 

Gary Gregory

Senior Software Engineer

Seagull Software

email: [hidden email]

email: [hidden email]

www.seagullsoftware.com

 

 

From: Michael Glavassevich [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 08:36
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

 

Hi all,

(including [hidden email] on the cc list to hopefully reach a wider audience)

We're talking again on the Xerces j-dev mailing list about dropping support for JDK 1.3. The reason being that current builds of the XPath 2.0 processor (Eclipse PsychoPath) used by the XML Schema 1.1 implementation require JDK 1.4. While we do have a one-off PsychoPath jar that was built with JDK 1.3 some time ago, in order to pick up recent bug fixes in this library we need to refresh it with the JDK 1.4 version. This would only impact the XML Schema 1.1 enabled release for now but at some point in the future when XML Schema 1.1 becomes stable (both spec and impl) this would get merged into the main line.

Given the age of JDK 1.3 and that it's generally out of service my intuition is that this upgrade would probably be okay but wanted to check with users on their needs. Is there anyone out there still using Xerces-J with JDK 1.3? If you are, how long into the future will you continue to do so, and would you be willing to migrate to JDK 1.4 (or higher) to be able to use XML Schema 1.1?

Thanks.

Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: [hidden email]

E-mail: [hidden email]

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RE: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Gary Gregory-5
In reply to this post by Michael Glavassevich-3

 

 

Gary Gregory

Senior Software Engineer

Seagull Software

email: [hidden email]

email: [hidden email]

www.seagullsoftware.com

 

 

From: Michael Glavassevich [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 10:33
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

 

Hi Jake,

"Jacob Kjome" <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 12:58:49 PM:

> I have a library I develop (XMLC [1]) that depends on JDK1.3 and also depends
> on Xerces.  That said, part of the reason of depending on JDK1.3 is
> to stay in
> line with the Xerces dependency on JDK1.3.  The other reason is thatJDK1.3 is
> free and clear of any built-in XML APIs, which allows me to include exactly
> the JAXP library of my choice (xml-apis.jar) without worry of compile-time
> binding to odd invalid APIs included in 1.4 (such as some stuff meant for the
> HTML2 API that got placed in the HTML1 API DOM package namespace).  But if
> Xerces decides to move to a later version of Java, then I will probably move
> XMLC right along with it.
>
> That said, I would think that if Xerces were going to bother making a move at
> all it would move to JDK1.5 rather than bother with 1.4.  Xerces 2.10 is
> always there for 1.3 and 1.4 codebases, which should all be well into
> maintenance mode meaning few, if any, library changes.


It's often not a choice but a constraint of the environment the developer is working in, having to write a new application on top of a product stack which is stuck on one of these earlier JDK releases. JDK 1.4 isn't dead yet; still in service for some vendors, including Oracle/Sun if you're a business willing to pay for the support. Not aware of any vendors supporting JDK 1.3 anymore though.

> Moving to 1.5 would
> allow Xerces to take advantage of all the new language constructs added in
> 1.5, as well as APIs added in 1.5 (e.g., StringBuilder -vs- StringBuffer).

Right. We all talked about the benefits of moving up even higher to Java 5 and 6 before, but have been quite conservative about upgrading because of where we are in the food chain.

This seems like some harsh handcuffs for Xerces to live with. If an app is stuck on Java 1.3, is it also evolving and keeping up with Xerces versions and new XML and XML Schema standards? As argued above, you can always use Xerces 2.10, forever. Why not lose the shakles? What about getting started on Xerces 3.0 with a 6 requirement and maintain Xerces 2.x on Java 3 with critical bugs fixes only? And say “Welcome to the 21st century J

Gary

 



> So, +1 for changing JDK dependency in general, but I would prefer a move
> straight to JDK1.5+ skipping JDK1.4 support.  This also seems to be
> what a lot
> of Apache commons libraries are doing, so it's certainly not unprecedented.
>
> [1] http://forge.ow2.org/projects/xmlc/
>
>
> Jake
>
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:36:07 -0400
>   Michael Glavassevich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > (including [hidden email] on the cc list to hopefully reach a wider
> > audience)
> >
> > We're talking again on the Xerces j-dev mailing list about dropping support
> > for JDK 1.3. The reason being that current builds of the XPath 2.0
> > processor (Eclipse PsychoPath) used by the XML Schema 1.1 implementation
> > require JDK 1.4. While we do have a one-off PsychoPath jar that was built
> > with JDK 1.3 some time ago, in order to pick up recent bug fixes in this
> > library we need to refresh it with the JDK 1.4 version. This would only
> > impact the XML Schema 1.1 enabled release for now but at some point in the
> > future when XML Schema 1.1 becomes stable (both spec and impl) this would
> > get merged into the main line.
> >
> > Given the age of JDK 1.3 and that it's generally out of service my
> > intuition is that this upgrade would probably be okay but wanted to check
> > with users on their needs. Is there anyone out there still using Xerces-J
> > with JDK 1.3? If you are, how long into the future will you continue to do
> > so, and would you be willing to migrate to JDK 1.4 (or higher) to be able
> > to use XML Schema 1.1?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Michael Glavassevich
> > XML Parser Development
> > IBM Toronto Lab
> > E-mail: [hidden email]
> > E-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]


Thanks.

Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: [hidden email]

E-mail: [hidden email]

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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

dbrosius-2
In reply to this post by Michael Glavassevich-3
the end of life on 1.4 was fall 2008!

+1 in going to 1.5 directly

Michael Glavassevich <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>Hi Jake,
>
>"Jacob Kjome" <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 12:58:49 PM:
>
>> I have a library I develop (XMLC [1]) that depends on JDK1.3 and also
>depends
>> on Xerces.  That said, part of the reason of depending on JDK1.3 is
>> to stay in
>> line with the Xerces dependency on JDK1.3.  The other reason is
>thatJDK1.3 is
>> free and clear of any built-in XML APIs, which allows me to include
>exactly
>> the JAXP library of my choice (xml-apis.jar) without worry of
>compile-time
>> binding to odd invalid APIs included in 1.4 (such as some stuff meant for
>the
>> HTML2 API that got placed in the HTML1 API DOM package namespace).  But
>if
>> Xerces decides to move to a later version of Java, then I will probably
>move
>> XMLC right along with it.
>>
>> That said, I would think that if Xerces were going to bother making a
>move at
>> all it would move to JDK1.5 rather than bother with 1.4.  Xerces 2.10 is
>> always there for 1.3 and 1.4 codebases, which should all be well into
>> maintenance mode meaning few, if any, library changes.
>
>It's often not a choice but a constraint of the environment the developer
>is working in, having to write a new application on top of a product stack
>which is stuck on one of these earlier JDK releases. JDK 1.4 isn't dead
>yet; still in service for some vendors, including Oracle/Sun if you're a
>business willing to pay for the support. Not aware of any vendors
>supporting JDK 1.3 anymore though.
>
>> Moving to 1.5 would
>> allow Xerces to take advantage of all the new language constructs added
>in
>> 1.5, as well as APIs added in 1.5 (e.g., StringBuilder -vs-
>StringBuffer).
>
>Right. We all talked about the benefits of moving up even higher to Java 5
>and 6 before, but have been quite conservative about upgrading because of
>where we are in the food chain.
>
>> So, +1 for changing JDK dependency in general, but I would prefer a move
>> straight to JDK1.5+ skipping JDK1.4 support.  This also seems to be
>> what a lot
>> of Apache commons libraries are doing, so it's certainly not
>unprecedented.
>>
>> [1] http://forge.ow2.org/projects/xmlc/
>>
>>
>> Jake
>>
>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:36:07 -0400
>>   Michael Glavassevich <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > (including [hidden email] on the cc list to hopefully reach a
>wider
>> > audience)
>> >
>> > We're talking again on the Xerces j-dev mailing list about dropping
>support
>> > for JDK 1.3. The reason being that current builds of the XPath 2.0
>> > processor (Eclipse PsychoPath) used by the XML Schema 1.1
>implementation
>> > require JDK 1.4. While we do have a one-off PsychoPath jar that was
>built
>> > with JDK 1.3 some time ago, in order to pick up recent bug fixes in
>this
>> > library we need to refresh it with the JDK 1.4 version. This would only
>> > impact the XML Schema 1.1 enabled release for now but at some point in
>the
>> > future when XML Schema 1.1 becomes stable (both spec and impl) this
>would
>> > get merged into the main line.
>> >
>> > Given the age of JDK 1.3 and that it's generally out of service my
>> > intuition is that this upgrade would probably be okay but wanted to
>check
>> > with users on their needs. Is there anyone out there still using
>Xerces-J
>> > with JDK 1.3? If you are, how long into the future will you continue to
>do
>> > so, and would you be willing to migrate to JDK 1.4 (or higher) to be
>able
>> > to use XML Schema 1.1?
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Michael Glavassevich
>> > XML Parser Development
>> > IBM Toronto Lab
>> > E-mail: [hidden email]
>> > E-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>Thanks.
>
>Michael Glavassevich
>XML Parser Development
>IBM Toronto Lab
>E-mail: [hidden email]
>E-mail: [hidden email]
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RE: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Michael Glavassevich-3
In reply to this post by Gary Gregory-5

Gary,

Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 02:02:27 PM:

> Gary Gregory
> Senior Software Engineer
> Seagull Software
> email: [hidden email]
> email: [hidden email]
> www.seagullsoftware.com
>  
>  
> From: Michael Glavassevich [[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 10:33
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

>  
> Hi Jake,
>
> "Jacob Kjome" <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 12:58:49 PM:
>
> > I have a library I develop (XMLC [1]) that depends on JDK1.3 and
> also depends
> > on Xerces.  That said, part of the reason of depending on JDK1.3 is
> > to stay in
> > line with the Xerces dependency on JDK1.3.  The other reason is
> thatJDK1.3 is
> > free and clear of any built-in XML APIs, which allows me to include exactly
> > the JAXP library of my choice (xml-apis.jar) without worry of compile-time
> > binding to odd invalid APIs included in 1.4 (such as some stuff
> meant for the
> > HTML2 API that got placed in the HTML1 API DOM package namespace).  But if
> > Xerces decides to move to a later version of Java, then I will
> probably move
> > XMLC right along with it.
> >
> > That said, I would think that if Xerces were going to bother
> making a move at
> > all it would move to JDK1.5 rather than bother with 1.4.  Xerces 2.10 is
> > always there for 1.3 and 1.4 codebases, which should all be well into
> > maintenance mode meaning few, if any, library changes.
>
> It's often not a choice but a constraint of the environment the
> developer is working in, having to write a new application on top of
> a product stack which is stuck on one of these earlier JDK releases.
> JDK 1.4 isn't dead yet; still in service for some vendors, including
> Oracle/Sun if you're a business willing to pay for the support. Not
> aware of any vendors supporting JDK 1.3 anymore though.
>
> > Moving to 1.5 would
> > allow Xerces to take advantage of all the new language constructs added in
> > 1.5, as well as APIs added in 1.5 (e.g., StringBuilder -vs- StringBuffer).
>
> Right. We all talked about the benefits of moving up even higher to
> Java 5 and 6 before, but have been quite conservative about
> upgrading because of where we are in the food chain.

> This seems like some harsh handcuffs for Xerces to live with. If an
> app is stuck on Java 1.3, is it also evolving and keeping up with
> Xerces versions and new XML and XML Schema standards?


I think you missed my first point.

> As argued above, you can always use Xerces 2.10, forever. Why not lose
> the shakles? What about getting started on Xerces 3.0 with a 6
> requirement and maintain Xerces 2.x on Java 3 with critical bugs
> fixes only? And say “Welcome to the 21st century J”


Sure, that's technically possible but I think it's too early to be jumping directly up to 6. Not sure there are many ASF projects which would even bundle a Java 6 only Xerces release today. Plus I can't think of anything Xerces would even use that's Java 6 specific. java.util.ArrayDeque maybe? but that's hardly a compelling reason to do it.

> Gary
>  
>
> > So, +1 for changing JDK dependency in general, but I would prefer a move
> > straight to JDK1.5+ skipping JDK1.4 support.  This also seems to be
> > what a lot
> > of Apache commons libraries are doing, so it's certainly not unprecedented.
> >
> > [1] http://forge.ow2.org/projects/xmlc/
> >
> >
> > Jake


Thanks.

Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: [hidden email]

E-mail: [hidden email]

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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Hiranya Jayathilaka-3


On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Michael Glavassevich <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gary,

Gary Gregory <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 02:02:27 PM:


> Gary Gregory
> Senior Software Engineer
> Seagull Software
> email: [hidden email]
> email: [hidden email]
> www.seagullsoftware.com
>  
>  
> From: Michael Glavassevich [[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 10:33
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

>  
> Hi Jake,
>
> "Jacob Kjome" <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 12:58:49 PM:
>
> > I have a library I develop (XMLC [1]) that depends on JDK1.3 and
> also depends
> > on Xerces.  That said, part of the reason of depending on JDK1.3 is
> > to stay in
> > line with the Xerces dependency on JDK1.3.  The other reason is
> thatJDK1.3 is
> > free and clear of any built-in XML APIs, which allows me to include exactly
> > the JAXP library of my choice (xml-apis.jar) without worry of compile-time
> > binding to odd invalid APIs included in 1.4 (such as some stuff
> meant for the
> > HTML2 API that got placed in the HTML1 API DOM package namespace).  But if
> > Xerces decides to move to a later version of Java, then I will
> probably move
> > XMLC right along with it.
> >
> > That said, I would think that if Xerces were going to bother
> making a move at
> > all it would move to JDK1.5 rather than bother with 1.4.  Xerces 2.10 is
> > always there for 1.3 and 1.4 codebases, which should all be well into
> > maintenance mode meaning few, if any, library changes.
>
> It's often not a choice but a constraint of the environment the
> developer is working in, having to write a new application on top of
> a product stack which is stuck on one of these earlier JDK releases.
> JDK 1.4 isn't dead yet; still in service for some vendors, including
> Oracle/Sun if you're a business willing to pay for the support. Not
> aware of any vendors supporting JDK 1.3 anymore though.
>
> > Moving to 1.5 would
> > allow Xerces to take advantage of all the new language constructs added in
> > 1.5, as well as APIs added in 1.5 (e.g., StringBuilder -vs- StringBuffer).
>
> Right. We all talked about the benefits of moving up even higher to
> Java 5 and 6 before, but have been quite conservative about
> upgrading because of where we are in the food chain.

> This seems like some harsh handcuffs for Xerces to live with. If an
> app is stuck on Java 1.3, is it also evolving and keeping up with
> Xerces versions and new XML and XML Schema standards?


I think you missed my first point.


> As argued above, you can always use Xerces 2.10, forever. Why not lose
> the shakles? What about getting started on Xerces 3.0 with a 6
> requirement and maintain Xerces 2.x on Java 3 with critical bugs
> fixes only? And say “Welcome to the 21st century J”


Sure, that's technically possible but I think it's too early to be jumping directly up to 6. Not sure there are many ASF projects which would even bundle a Java 6 only Xerces release today. Plus I can't think of anything Xerces would even use that's Java 6 specific. java.util.ArrayDeque maybe? but that's hardly a compelling reason to do it.

I think most Java projects around are still on JDK 5. So I think JDK 5 is a more suitable target at this point.

Thanks,
Hiranya



> Gary
>  
>
> > So, +1 for changing JDK dependency in general, but I would prefer a move
> > straight to JDK1.5+ skipping JDK1.4 support.  This also seems to be
> > what a lot
> > of Apache commons libraries are doing, so it's certainly not unprecedented.
> >
> > [1] http://forge.ow2.org/projects/xmlc/
> >
> >
> > Jake


Thanks.

Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: [hidden email]

E-mail: [hidden email]




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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Mukul Gandhi-4
I think, there's a general consensus in community and also so far in
this discussion, that JDK 1.3 support can be dropped safely for
Xerces-J.

Now it's a question of selecting a min level of 1.4 or 1.5 for Xerces-J.

I'm aware of projects, which still work with JDK 1.4 (and there are
plenty working in maintenance mode, and are adding or changing
functionality in JDK 1.4 environment). I think, it's good if we
provide support for JDK 1.4 for a while.

So I would vote for min JDK level of 1.4 at the moment, for XML Schema
1.1 support in Xerces-J :)

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Hiranya Jayathilaka
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think most Java projects around are still on JDK 5. So I think JDK 5 is a
> more suitable target at this point.

> Thanks,
> Hiranya


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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Shane Curcuru-2
In reply to this post by Michael Glavassevich-3
+1 to moving the future versions to 1.4, it sounds like it's the right
time for that now, especially with the Schema differences.  It would be
helpful to have one last release using 1.3 with a big notice on the
homepage so people are prepared.

And I agree overall with Michael about sticking with 1.4 and not jumping
ahead; Xerces is at the core of a *lot* of software, and there are
plenty of people maintaining and updating apps on older versions of
software built atop the ASF XML stack.

Thanks,
- Shane

Michael Glavassevich wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> (including [hidden email] on the cc list to hopefully reach a
> wider audience)
>
> We're talking again on the Xerces j-dev mailing list about dropping
> support for JDK 1.3. The reason being that current builds of the XPath
> 2.0 processor (Eclipse PsychoPath) used by the XML Schema 1.1
> implementation require JDK 1.4. While we do have a one-off PsychoPath
> jar that was built with JDK 1.3 some time ago, in order to pick up
> recent bug fixes in this library we need to refresh it with the JDK 1.4
> version. This would only impact the XML Schema 1.1 enabled release for
> now but at some point in the future when XML Schema 1.1 becomes stable
> (both spec and impl) this would get merged into the main line.
>
> Given the age of JDK 1.3 and that it's generally out of service my
> intuition is that this upgrade would probably be okay but wanted to
> check with users on their needs. Is there anyone out there still using
> Xerces-J with JDK 1.3? If you are, how long into the future will you
> continue to do so, and would you be willing to migrate to JDK 1.4 (or
> higher) to be able to use XML Schema 1.1?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael Glavassevich
> XML Parser Development
> IBM Toronto Lab
> E-mail: [hidden email]
> E-mail: [hidden email]
>


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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Mukul Gandhi-4
Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It would be helpful to have one last release using 1.3 with a big notice on the homepage so
> people are prepared.

I think it'll be just too tedious to have PsychoPath XPath engine
(necessary for Xerces XML Schema 1.1 support) for JDK 1.3 as compliant
as it's for JDK 1.5 (where we have almost 100% compliance to XPath 2.0
spec).

We already nearly have same XPath 2.0 compliance of PsychoPath engine
for JDK 1.4 (where it's hugely better than, that for JDK 1.3 !).

I think announcing the end of JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J could be
done via Xerces news portal, or perhaps via Xerces wiki as well :)


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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Michael Glavassevich-3

Mukul Gandhi <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/09/2010 12:09:52 PM:

> Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > It would be helpful to have one last release using 1.3 with a big
> notice on the homepage so
> > people are prepared.
>
> I think it'll be just too tedious to have PsychoPath XPath engine
> (necessary for Xerces XML Schema 1.1 support) for JDK 1.3 as compliant
> as it's for JDK 1.5 (where we have almost 100% compliance to XPath 2.0
> spec).
>
> We already nearly have same XPath 2.0 compliance of PsychoPath engine
> for JDK 1.4 (where it's hugely better than, that for JDK 1.3 !).
>
> I think announcing the end of JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J could be
> done via Xerces news portal, or perhaps via Xerces wiki as well :)

Remember, we are just talking about upgrading to JDK 1.4 on the XML Schema 1.1 branch for now (since there's an actual need for it). The main stable release could still be built with JDK 1.3 for awhile longer.

> --
> Regards,
> Mukul Gandhi
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Thanks.

Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: [hidden email]

E-mail: [hidden email]

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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Mukul Gandhi-4
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Michael Glavassevich
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Remember, we are just talking about upgrading to JDK 1.4 on the XML Schema
> 1.1 branch for now (since there's an actual need for it). The main stable
> release could still be built with JDK 1.3 for awhile longer.

Sorry for a little confusion with wordings in my mail. I actually
meant JDK 1.4 support for XML Schema 1.1 branch.

So + 1 for that :)


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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

sebb-2-2
In reply to this post by dbrosius-2
+1 for dropping support for 1.3

1.5 has a better memory model but as far as I know, this is part of
the JVM, rather than depending on the compiler, i.e. merely running
under 1.5 will help (please correct me if I'm wrong!). Switching to
1.5 involves a lot of work initially (generics, annotations) before
one can take full advantage of all its benefits.

So I would be inclined to do at least one release which requires 1.4,
and then look again at 1.5.

On 8 July 2010 19:27, Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> wrote:

> the end of life on 1.4 was fall 2008!
>
> +1 in going to 1.5 directly
>
> Michael Glavassevich <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Jake,
>>
>>"Jacob Kjome" <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 12:58:49 PM:
>>
>>> I have a library I develop (XMLC [1]) that depends on JDK1.3 and also
>>depends
>>> on Xerces.  That said, part of the reason of depending on JDK1.3 is
>>> to stay in
>>> line with the Xerces dependency on JDK1.3.  The other reason is
>>thatJDK1.3 is
>>> free and clear of any built-in XML APIs, which allows me to include
>>exactly
>>> the JAXP library of my choice (xml-apis.jar) without worry of
>>compile-time
>>> binding to odd invalid APIs included in 1.4 (such as some stuff meant for
>>the
>>> HTML2 API that got placed in the HTML1 API DOM package namespace).  But
>>if
>>> Xerces decides to move to a later version of Java, then I will probably
>>move
>>> XMLC right along with it.
>>>
>>> That said, I would think that if Xerces were going to bother making a
>>move at
>>> all it would move to JDK1.5 rather than bother with 1.4.  Xerces 2.10 is
>>> always there for 1.3 and 1.4 codebases, which should all be well into
>>> maintenance mode meaning few, if any, library changes.
>>
>>It's often not a choice but a constraint of the environment the developer
>>is working in, having to write a new application on top of a product stack
>>which is stuck on one of these earlier JDK releases. JDK 1.4 isn't dead
>>yet; still in service for some vendors, including Oracle/Sun if you're a
>>business willing to pay for the support. Not aware of any vendors
>>supporting JDK 1.3 anymore though.
>>
>>> Moving to 1.5 would
>>> allow Xerces to take advantage of all the new language constructs added
>>in
>>> 1.5, as well as APIs added in 1.5 (e.g., StringBuilder -vs-
>>StringBuffer).
>>
>>Right. We all talked about the benefits of moving up even higher to Java 5
>>and 6 before, but have been quite conservative about upgrading because of
>>where we are in the food chain.
>>
>>> So, +1 for changing JDK dependency in general, but I would prefer a move
>>> straight to JDK1.5+ skipping JDK1.4 support.  This also seems to be
>>> what a lot
>>> of Apache commons libraries are doing, so it's certainly not
>>unprecedented.
>>>
>>> [1] http://forge.ow2.org/projects/xmlc/
>>>
>>>
>>> Jake
>>>
>>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:36:07 -0400
>>>   Michael Glavassevich <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > (including [hidden email] on the cc list to hopefully reach a
>>wider
>>> > audience)
>>> >
>>> > We're talking again on the Xerces j-dev mailing list about dropping
>>support
>>> > for JDK 1.3. The reason being that current builds of the XPath 2.0
>>> > processor (Eclipse PsychoPath) used by the XML Schema 1.1
>>implementation
>>> > require JDK 1.4. While we do have a one-off PsychoPath jar that was
>>built
>>> > with JDK 1.3 some time ago, in order to pick up recent bug fixes in
>>this
>>> > library we need to refresh it with the JDK 1.4 version. This would only
>>> > impact the XML Schema 1.1 enabled release for now but at some point in
>>the
>>> > future when XML Schema 1.1 becomes stable (both spec and impl) this
>>would
>>> > get merged into the main line.
>>> >
>>> > Given the age of JDK 1.3 and that it's generally out of service my
>>> > intuition is that this upgrade would probably be okay but wanted to
>>check
>>> > with users on their needs. Is there anyone out there still using
>>Xerces-J
>>> > with JDK 1.3? If you are, how long into the future will you continue to
>>do
>>> > so, and would you be willing to migrate to JDK 1.4 (or higher) to be
>>able
>>> > to use XML Schema 1.1?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks.
>>> >
>>> > Michael Glavassevich
>>> > XML Parser Development
>>> > IBM Toronto Lab
>>> > E-mail: [hidden email]
>>> > E-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Michael Glavassevich
>>XML Parser Development
>>IBM Toronto Lab
>>E-mail: [hidden email]
>>E-mail: [hidden email]

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Re: [POLL]: Dropping JDK 1.3 support for Xerces-J?

Michael Glavassevich-3
In reply to this post by dbrosius-2

Dave,

Dave Brosius <[hidden email]> wrote on 07/08/2010 02:27:41 PM:

> the end of life on 1.4 was fall 2008!

You must only be thinking of Oracle/Sun and even they still support it if you pay [1]. Keep in mind that there are other vendors (for example IBM [2]) that support it as well and have end of service dates that are still in the future.

Thanks.

[1] http://java.sun.com/javase/support/javaforbusiness/
[2] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/aix/service.html#i1

Michael Glavassevich
XML Parser Development
IBM Toronto Lab
E-mail: [hidden email]

E-mail: [hidden email]

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